User avatar
By TheOmniAdam
#177687 Hey... so my last submission I threw together on my lunch break in a few days... this one I kind of went down the rabbit hole on so I'm sure V1 is too noisy and too nuts but I wanted to get opinions before putting together a v2.

The high concept behind the Gym is akin to a Gen 1 Giovanni situation where the leader is actually a villainous sort and through progressing through the gym you uncover and stop a nefarious plot- only with the limitations of assuming NPC events are not accessible in core gyms- it's more like you discover the villain in the aftermath. This all sprung from desperately trying to come up with a Ground gym theme (besides a mineshaft which every rock gym submission already beat me to) and the idea I came to was a Seismology lab- taken a step further- that's been hit by an Earthquake. Again- all very high concept.

The gym's "puzzles" consist of navigating the Lab-turned-Gym with the building split in two- power outage keeping gates closed- and various damage to the facility impeding travel. Trainers and NPCs all hint that something nefarious is afoot and when the player finally gets to the elevator and climbs the maintenance ladder they find a red herring gym leader who in defeat admits they are covering for the real Gym Leader who is trying to escape. A (pretty obvious) secret hatch leads to an underground lab where a doctor admits to helping in dangerous experiments explaining all the hushed secrets from previous trainers. Finally the confrontation takes place over the underground volcano (and the cages the experimental Pokemon WERE inside) Vivian the Gym Leader was using for power to fuel her experiments as she tries to justify all the Pokemon sacrificed for her research.

Again, it's all very high concept and more like an adventure map- the thing is contained to 30x30 but it's HUGE... I recognize I'll need to tone it back but I'd like to get the community's and mod's take on things before I begin hacking and cutting. I was going for that big final gym with story and villainy angle but that might be better left to the individual community servers/map makers, etc. I have a whole version of the lab before I remade it as destroyed so I can revert to a calmer and more straight forward version if the whole deep story is just a bit too much.

Since I know heavy revisions are to follow I haven't made enemy team compositions yet. They will likely make use of some sheer force Nido's, Dugtrio's Arena Trapping and Golem with a Custap Lead Stealth Rock/Explosion

Image Tour and Download
Spoiler:
I put together a screen shot tour but- without walking through it it's very hard to make sense of it all.
http://imgur.com/a/Kxpdj

You're honestly better off downloading it and walking through it. I built the NPCs without teams for a fuller experience. Gym Leader and Faux Gym Leader need custom skins. Moved the whole adventure to xz:0/0 if you spawn elsewhere (which I think by default you do). /tp 0 65 0 should put you at the front door.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/no9le ... Gym_v1.zip


NPC dialogue v1 (More or less the story to this gym).
Spoiler:
Guide [No name]
Page1: Yo! Champ in making! If you're looking to score an Earth Badge you might be too late!
Page2: The Gym Leader converted a Seismology Lab into a Gym! Maybe studying Earthquakes makes stronger ground type Pokemon?
Page3: Ironically the gym was hit by a bad Quake and split the whole building in half! It's too dangerous to go in!
Page4: How weird that a building which studied Earthquakes would get hit by one...

Kenneth [Male Scientist]
Page1: Hey! I'm supposed to battle trainers who want to challenge the Leader but... Look Around!
Page2: There was an Earthquake! One so centralized it only affected this building! That shouldn't be possible.
Page3: I've noticed some of the scientists disappearing... I... I think there might be a secret lab somewhere. I should ask the leader
Page4: But this half of the building has lost power. The Elevator Shaft is the only way up to the Top Office...

Theresa [Female Scientist]
Greeting: Of COURSE a dangerous experiment didn't cause the Earthquake... er... I mean...
Win: Good! Now stop asking silly questions!
Lose: Oh- you want to see the Gym Leader? I guess you could climb the elevator shaft? Just forget that other thing I said.

Aaron [Custom Skin- Man in Suit]
Greeting: Am I the Gym Leader... uh... sure?
Win: Really... I won! I mean... leave forever and ask no questions?
Lose: I'm... not the leader... I'm just covering an escape. There's a secret exit in this room.
Rewards: Feather nbttag: "Badge?", music disc nbttag: "TM 9000?"

Cecil [Male Doctor]
Page1: They're all dead! I tried to save them but I was too late! She got down here first but she didn't even try...
Page2: Vivian the Gym Leader bought this place because it was on top of an underground Volcano; a great power source
Page3: She... We've been doing experiments to try and weaponize the Earth moving power of Ground Pokemon to sell to the highest bidder...
Page4: The experiment activated the volcano... now innocent Pokemon are dead... I'm so ashamed. She must be stopped.

Vivian LaRue [Custom Skin- Woman in Suit]
Greeting: My research was not for nothing. I'll show you what I've learned.
Win: My team can't be beat! You've proven it was all worth it.
Lose: I've lost... and I'll soon be found out... Take this badge. You may be it's last recipient.
Rewards: Earth Badge, TM26: Earthquake


The work I put in to this brought up a couple questions I was hoping the fine folks working on the mod could answer?
Spoiler:
A) Is it possible to create a trader that either A: Doesn't care what you give them or B: JUST gives you a pokemon (like the guy who just GIVES you a Lapras in X/Y) but only once per trainer?
B) Is it possible to change an NPC's dialogue based on certain factors WITHOUT the NPC Event mod installed? Would it be possible to create a "Guide" NPC who will have different dialogue if you are carrying badges (or maybe just any item to give more power to folks creating NPCs?)
C) How does village pathing work in correlation to gyms? I was hoping for the front path to align with village paths when applicable- not sure if that's possible.
D) Gyms CAN go underground, right? Might be a bit late to ask this question...
E) Just want to confirm there are no plans to make NPC events part of the core mod and will continue to be a separate mod which will not impact Gyms in core.

F) Is there a way to give Trainer NPCs dialogue BEFORE a battle? You can't give a gym leader much dialogue since they only get 1 page AND it disappears on a timer or if someone is jamming on mouse clicks. Same with giving them extended chat AFTER a battle?
G) Is there a way for trainers to give items with NBT tags as rewards?
H) Any chance the sign that lists all successful challengers would be a block we could implement? Just seems like it would be neat- no idea how one would support that.


Adding Trainer Pokemon
Spoiler:
Theresa [Female Scientist]

Donphan
minLevel: 25
move1: "Rapid Spin"
move2: "Earthquake", "Counter"
move3: "Stealth Rock"
move4: "Ice Shard", "Seed Bomb"
ability: "Sturdy"
Item: "Leftovers"
nature: "Impish"
evDef: 252
evHp: 252
evSpeed: 4
lead: true

Steelix
minLevel: 25
move1: "Stealth Rock"
move2: "Earthquake"
move3: "Gyro Ball"
move4: "Dragon Tail"
ability: "Sturdy"
Item: "Leftovers"
nature: "RElaxed"
evDef: 252
evHp: 252
evSpDef: 4

Quagsire
minLevel: 25
move1: "Recover"
move2: "Scald"
move3: "Earthquake"
move4: "Toxic"
ability: "Unaware"
Item: "Leftovers"
nature: "Relaxed"
evAtt: 252
evSpeed: 252
evDef: 4


Swinub
minLevel: 25
maxLevel: 34
move1: "Icicle Crash"
move2: "Ice Shard"
move3: "Earthquake"
move4: "Superpower"
ability: "Thick Fat"
Item: "Life Orb"
nature: "Jolly"
evAtt: 252
evSpeed: 252
evDef: 4

Mamoswine
minLevel: 35
move1: "Icicle Crash"
move2: "Ice Shard"
move3: "Earthquake"
move4: "Superpower"
ability: "Thick Fat"
Item: "Life Orb"
nature: "Jolly"
evAtt: 252
evSpeed: 252
evDef: 4

Numel
minLevel: 25
maxLevel: 34
move1: "Rest"
move2: "Sleep Talk"
move3: "Lava Plume"
move4: "Stockpile"
ability: "Simple"
Item: "Eviolite"
nature: "Bold"
evHp: 252
evDef: 127
evSpDef: 127

Camerupt
minLevel: 35
move1: "Eruption"
move2: "Fire Blast"
move3: "Earth Power"
move4: "Flash Cannon"
ability: "Solid Rock"
Item: "Choice Specs"
nature: "Modest"
evSpA: 252
evSpeed: 252
evHp: 4


Aaron [Custom Skin- Man in Suit]

Rhyhorn
minLevel: 25
maxLevel: 41
move1: "Stealth Rock"
move2: "Earthquake"
move3: "Rock Blast"
move4: "Megahorn"
ability: "Rockhead"
Item: "Eviolite"
nature: "Adamant"
evAtt: 252
evHp: 252
evSpDef: 4

Rhydon
minLevel: 42
move1: "Stealth Rock"
move2: "Earthquake"
move3: "Rock Blast"
move4: "Megahorn"
ability: "Rockhead"
Item: "Eviolite"
nature: "Adamant"
evAtt: 252
evHp: 252
evSpDef: 4

Sandslash
minLevel: 25
move1: "Rapid Spin", "Sandstorm"
move2: "Earthquake", "Stone Edge"
move3: "Night Slash"
move4: "Sword's Dance"
ability: "Sand Rush"
Item: "Lum Berry"
nature: "Adamant"
evAtt: 252
evHp: 252
evDef: 4

Golett
minLevel: 25
maxLevel: 42
sets [
move1: "Thunder Punch"
move2: "Shadow Punch"
move3: "Ice Punch"
move4: "Drain Punch"
ability: "Iron Fist"
Item: "Choice Band"
nature: "Adamant"
evAtt: 252
evSpeed: 252
evHp: 4
],[
move1: "Dynamic Punch"
move2: "Shadow Punch"
move3: "Ice Punch"
move4: "Drain Punch"
ability: "No Guard"
Item: "Choice Scarf"
nature: "Adamant"
evAtt: 252
evSpeed: 252
evHp: 4
]

Golurk
minLevel: 43
sets [
move1: "Thunder Punch"
move2: "Shadow Punch"
move3: "Ice Punch"
move4: "Drain Punch"
ability: "Iron Fist"
Item: "Choice Band"
nature: "Adamant"
evAtt: 252
evSpeed: 252
evHp: 4
],[
move1: "Dynamic Punch"
move2: "Shadow Punch"
move3: "Ice Punch"
move4: "Drain Punch"
ability: "No Guard"
Item: "Choice Scarf"
nature: "Adamant"
evAtt: 252
evSpeed: 252
evHp: 4
]

Vibrava
minLevel: 35
maxLevel: 44
move1: "Outrage"
move2: "Earthquake"
move3: "U-Turn"
move4: "Fire Punch"
ability: Levitate"
Item: "Choice Band"
nature: "Adamant"
evAtt: 252
evSpeed: 252
evSpD: 4

Flygon
minLevel: 45
move1: "Outrage"
move2: "Earthquake"
move3: "U-Turn"
move4: "Fire Punch"
ability: Levitate"
Item: "Choice Band"
nature: "Adamant"
evAtt: 252
evSpeed: 252
evSpD: 4

Nidoking
minLevel: 25
move1: "Earth Power"
move2: "Fire Blast"
move3: "Ice Beam", "Focus Blast"
move4: "Substitute"
ability: "Sheer Force"
Item: "Life Orb"
nature: "Timid"
evSpAtt: 252
evSpeed: 252
evSpD: 4


Vivian LaRue [Custom Skin- Woman in Suit]

Golem
minLevel: 25
move1: "Stealth Rock"
move2: "Earthquake"
move3: "Rock Blast"
move4: "Explosion"
ability: Sturdy"
Item: "Custap Berry"
nature: "Adamant"
evSpAtt: 252
evSpeed: 252
evHp: 4


Gliscor
minLevel: 25
move1: "Substitute"
move2: "Toxic"
move3: "Roost", "Protect"
move4: "Earthquake", "Taunt"
ability: "Poison Heal"
Item: "Toxic Orb"
nature: "Impish"
evHp: 252
evSpeed: 252
evDef: 4

Dugtrio
minLevel: 25
move1: "Reversal"
move2: "Sucker Punch"
move3: "Aerial Ace", "Stone Edge"
move4: "Earthquake", "Memento"
ability: "Arena Trap"
Item: "Focus Sash"
nature: "Jolly"
evHp: 252
evSpeed: 252
evDef: 4

Krokorok
minLevel: 29
maxLevel: 39
move1: "Crunch"
move2: "Earthquake", "Stone Edge"
move3: "Pursuit"
move4: "Superpower"
ability: "Moxie"
Item: "Choice Scarf"
nature: "Jolly"
evHp: 252
evSpeed: 252
evSpDef: 4

Krookodile
minLevel: 40
move1: "Crunch"
move2: "Earthquake", "Stone Edge"
move3: "Pursuit"
move4: "Superpower"
ability: "Moxie"
Item: "Choice Scarf"
nature: "Jolly"
evHp: 252
evSpeed: 252
evSpDef: 4

Nidoqueen
minLevel: 25
move1: "Earth Power"
move2: "Fire Blast"
move3: "Ice Beam", "Focus Blast"
move4: "Sludge Wave", "Dragon Tail"
ability: "Sheer Force"
Item: "Life Orb"
nature: "Modest"
evSpAtt: 252
evSpeed: 252
evHp: 4


I appreciate feedback- constructive criticism is appreciated- scathing remarks are probably inevitable. Just want to make the mod the best it can be.

User avatar
By TheOmniAdam
#179554 I went ahead and added the Pokemon for this Gym. I'd like to hear back on this gym- even a "Not interested" to know if this gym is even being considered or is salvageable.

I'd like to make more gyms as well but it's possible it's too late and too close to the release? Will gym submissions continue to be accepted after the next version is released?

I know the team is busy- just eager to help. Thanks.
User avatar
By bvanseghi
#179590 Hmm... how to put this...

It doesn't feel like a rock gym. It doesn't give off a vibe of "earth". Now, the grass gym in the main mod as of now... THAT is good. It's grassy. It feels like navigating a jungle. It's cramped. It feels like wilderness inside a building.

Lava should not be a part of a rock gym, more like a fire gym. Laboratories do not belong in a rock gym, more like a steel gym.

If it were me making it, I'd make it pitch black. Dark. And a maze. Hard to navigate. Maybe make pitfalls that send you down into a cavern below the gym that leads to the beginning for the player to start all over again. That would make it a challenge. Sure, it seems similar to the grass gym, but it definitely is not the same challenge.

Hope I helped :)

EDIT: Regarding developers... don't push them, my dude. They have a lot on their plate as it is, patience... it will take a bit for them to respond to something like this. I'll be keeping an eye on this topic, maybe my "team" *cough* losers *cough* and I can help you out.
User avatar
By TheOmniAdam
#179696 Hey B!

First of all thanks for feedback- as someone who's been chomping at the bit to work on gyms it's good to see someone with earnest interest and criticism contributing from the community (I do understand dev team is busy- and they are doing great work- more on that later). You've been popping up all over and I think that's awesome. The following are counterpoints and I wouldn't want it to come across like I'm upset for your contribution- the truth is quite the opposite; I'm grateful.

I thought I'd try something with some story. In Gen 1 every gym was an identical building with the word Gym on it and Giovanni's gym (from which this takes primary inspiration) had almost nothing to do with being Earthy- I forgot he WAS a Ground type gym until I was looking for gyms that shared the type- his gym was simply the place he was a Gym Leader- but his gym was based around his role as a villain and leader of Team Rocket

I completely understand wanting to keep things thematically monotone with Lava being exclusively for fire gyms, etc. but that's very limiting. Water gyms in 5th generation had lily pads- that doesn't mean it was too much like a grass gym. Are trees limited to grass gyms? Because I think they'd fit perfectly in a flying gym based on tree branches as bird's homes, a fairy gym which could be very nature based, etc.

Later generations have done outstanding work fully embracing the elemental atmosphere which is absolutely what I shot for with my previous submissions of air balloons and floating platforms for a flying gym- so I'm not against it- but I think there is room for both.

I totally understand the dev team is busy- I want feedback so I can be of more help- not to be a nuisance so to you AND to the team I apologize for when I get impatient- it's out of an earnest desire to contribute. Right now I don't even know if they LIKE the idea of story driven gyms- maybe they share the opinion that we exclusively want atmospheric gyms strictly themed on their typing and will flatly hate this gym- that's fine, but I'd like to know before I do more work on it or build more in the same mindset.

The gym you suggest does sound very cool- as before I absolutely think you should build it and see how it looks. I don't know if we are limiting the mod to one of each gym type- the games overall did not do that but each generation did and that might be the dev's notion - I don't know- but if so I don't see why there wouldn't be room for both. Folk need the Earth badge AND the Quake badge afterall.
User avatar
By bvanseghi
#179698 Those are good points, and don't get me wrong, it's a very good build. But I don't quite think it is the build we need for ground.

I see where you are with the stuff you added, such as the lava, but the reason a tree would be in a flying gym is because birds are notorious for being around trees. Laboratories are usually associated with electricity, and lava is usually associated with fire, burning, heat, etc.

I can see at least one tie in with ground to the lava, seeing how pressure and heat is associated with rocks or material such as obsidian. But this connection is a stretch.

Laboratory, on the other hand, has no tie in whatsoever to ground.

I never did mention the actual structure itself. I love the design of the building, except where the lava and laboratory looking areas (made mostly with iron looking blocks).

Speaking of iron, I hope that isn't iron blocks, as the rules for gym creation state that resource blocks/rare material such as diamond, gold, redstone, etc. should be kept to a minimal. Iron blocks were not mentioned, but that seems like too much iron, if that IS iron and my eyes are not deceiving me.
User avatar
By TheOmniAdam
#179704 The laboratory was birthed by looking for something thematically associated with ground when the current Rock Gym submissions had immediately jumped on mine shafts, rock quarries, etc. It's a seismology lab- which studies Earthquakes. I recognize the lacking theme in building materials and aesthetic appeal for sure- but needing to justify the theme gave birth to the story, the building being split BY an Earthquake, and villain arc. Someone else made an Earth gym which was a temple made of Earthy materials which is a route I'd overlooked in an effort to make more modern buildings to fit with Pokecenters, etc.

The lava was birthed by wanting an exciting finale and needing a villainous experiment that could be quickly and simply conveyed. The final chamber filled with lava was more or less designed to accentuate villainy with the Pokemon cages submerged in lava - I had intention of building a nefarious looking machine on the right hand side where it is mostly vacant- but was honestly made hastily compared to the rest of the gym. I built most of this over the course of two nights while the wife and wee ones slept and had that "maybe they'll hate this idea" epiphany as I was building the underground portion- so I shot to get a V1 up quickly to see if the team loved the homage to Giovanni and the villainous gym leader (and would then polish the finale for a V2) or agreed with the sentiment that it should look like it's made of ground if it's a ground gym and have to scrap the whole thing.

I can concede if we're only going to have one of each gym type then I could see wanting them all to be primarily pretty and obvious themes but it was my thought we could at LEAST have one per badge (if not more) giving us multiples of popular types as well as even more variance in gyms. For all I know they still haven't ironed out generating structures underground so all of the above could be a moot point and the gym could be unusable anyway.

I never use iron blocks- I use Elevator Blocks in the two elevators (despite them not connecting to anything) but everything else is Quartz Block or something common like stone slabs.
User avatar
By TheOmniAdam
#183358 I see Mr. M made the rounds and this gym didn't make the cut- I'll have to assume he shares the sentiment of aesthetically styled gyms over the adventure map-y story-explaining-gym concept which is totally fair. IF there is any way to change this to make it a gym I'd be interested to hear- but I'll assume not and see if I can't spruce up and submit the "un-damaged" version of the map as a stand alone structure.
User avatar
By bvanseghi
#183420 As said before, it does not accurately represent a ground gym. Too much lava and too much laboratory-looking. Take for instance where ground Pixelmon are found. Desert biomes, correct? Now, take note of the way the Grass Gym is set up. The Grass Gym uses colours that correlate to grass, and not only that, the gym also takes in use mechanics that grass related blocks include.

Now think of blocks you could utilise to make a ground gym. This could be sand, gravel, dirt, etc.

Now, sand could be very interesting in using with puzzles due to their unique physics.

Hope this helps you.
User avatar
By TheOmniAdam
#183451 I understand if it's not in the mods vision for a ground gym but I feel it's important to clarify; remember this is what the first ground gym looked like in the games.

Image

Even updated for fire red/leaf green

Image

Image

It isn't made of ground or rock because the gym isn't thematically tied to the typing- it's tied to it's gym leader and his role as a villain. So I understand the team making pixelmon is not interested in something like this for the ground gym they want to put in to the mod (That's not bitter- I get why you'd want all gyms to be in that vein of aesthetics and knew going in this was an off the wall kind of idea) but to say it's not representative of a ground gym I don't feel is accurate nor is explaining to me what that means very helpful; this is and always was an homage to Giovanni's original Ground Gym - It's not that I don't understand the idea of making a gym using the materials more iconic to it's definitive typing- it's just not what I shot for with this particular design- it was more story driven.

My future submissions will elect for thematic materials and color schemes and probably eschew story other than vibrant characterization for gym leaders (though I don't know I'll get to any submissions in the near future so I again wonder if the mods will continue to accept submissions after the next big release- I'm eager to add more once I have less on my plate in RL).
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