[Vikerus]

- 23 Oct 2015 23:45 #162622 Something in me says live and let live with these things. But I can see where the frustration comes from. Trying to compete against organized money is difficult. We went the way of voting rewards and mob arena tokens to keep things even on jc. I know a lot of the economy build up was due to a lack of questing system, more time was naturally focused on what plugins provided at the time.

Lots of factors to consider. No one likes to see pay to win but few answers are given. Owners are left to build around a void without definitions. It seems the only real way to fix this problem is to have a trusted domain running a membership type voting site where boosting is mathematically impossible. (This is the main reason for all the problems, list sites and the way they function opens an endless instability into the niche where a select few float above on exploits or ironically enough are forced to pay to win players in the top spaces.) And yes a lot of it is greed. There are actual costs for hosting a server. In my case a dedicated server, VPS, domains, and taxes. While I might make enough to keep the server afloat and invest back into the projects. It is no where near what I've heard some servers are making monthly... Enough to buy a car? A house? I mean I'm no one to judge but if you make that much from a game server shouldn't you be investing in the community that gave you the funds?

Just my 3 cents.

Adventure Pixelmon, Connect at: justiscrafts.com

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Website: http://www.justiscrafts.com/

[RemusSargin]

- 24 Oct 2015 14:05 #162649 I agree Vikerus on pretty much all of those points. I don't think the P2W or the voting systems are the problem, I think it ultimately comes down to, as you said, basic human Greed. I have been around Pixelmon since late 2012, just before the forum change, so I've seen a lot of servers. I worked on Alpine MCPM, as previously stated, from December 2012 until about February 2014, and one of my jobs became evaluating other servers, as I was an out-of-sight mod. From my experience, I have seen lots of servers, some which used the donation system fairly, and some that exploited the system, making them P2W. But this has already been acknowledged.

Ultimately, we are arguing against the power and prevalence of those servers which do exploit the system. As you stated, some server owners make an ungodly amount per month, but you are also ignoring the issue which this thread is about the in-game implications of this exploitation in-game. For players themselves, especially new ones, the P2W servers tend to turn them off of the server searching and Pixelmon itself - something no one here wants. All we want is to find a way to give other servers - ones that are new, small, or simply underfunded - to get a chance to rise in some way. Essentially, we want servers to be properly recognized - for merit, not funding (how topical in the world today).

Players want community, freshness, as well as the ability to thrive even without donating. That's what we want to give them.

Thanks,
Remus

"The human race has only one really effective weapon and that is laughter.""Against the assault of laughter, nothing can stand."~Mark Twain

ALPINE MCPM REBORN. JOIN THE REBUILD AT: http://alpineretold.freeforums.net/.

[nickshaul97]

- 24 Oct 2015 23:42 #162676 I have been running my server for almost 2 years now, so I have seen alot of players come and go. I recently had a bit of reward party to had back to my players as a bit of a thank you. The sad thing was how many people complained about not getting even stuff. The reason the p2w servers work is because some children want to be the top player instantly. So they just buy it. Yes it comes down to greed with humans but if kids join a server and have no option to buy what they want they just leave and find a server that they can p2w on. I have been offering voting points to be able to buy 95% of the rewards that come from my donation system shop. Granted it takes a long time to get the top rank from voting, but it can and has been done. So my thoughts come down to servers that should be shown off are the ones that are truly fair at heart. The ones that have more than one system to be able to get stuff without spending money. Whether it be voting or be earning it ingame by buying stuff or making stuff and flipping it for a profit. Just my thoughts
Thanks for reading,
Nick

Spoiler:

Check out my server. play.pokeplanet.net

[Vikerus]

- 25 Oct 2015 18:55 #162691 Well if solutions are what you're looking for I would suggest, although it would take a vps, pixelmonmod.com could create its own voting system for members... I'd be more then willing to share the vouch code I made for my site. The problem with current list sites is the bidding for top areas, once a list site owner realizes how much server owners are making and willing to shovel out they jack up the prices making an effective elite class of server owners who always are able to out bid the small guys.

Adventure Pixelmon, Connect at: justiscrafts.com

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Website: http://www.justiscrafts.com/

[KSin]

- 25 Oct 2015 20:32 #162698 Just thought I'd throw it out there, the feature list and vote system do sound nice, but does anyone have suggestions of how to prevent fake votes?

These days server owners tend to reward their users for posting positive reviews on their thread here. It not only improves their servers image but bumps their thread. With that in mind, and the ability to give the users anything from the mod, what's to stop them?

I am Kun-Sin.

[Vikerus]

- 25 Oct 2015 21:49 #162701 The answer is a membership protected site, which is why it would be so easy to tie into this domain as the database could be the same as is used for the forum. No need to rely on a funky lockout for each vote action. Just limit each account to one action per 24 hours. Same as how a server owner can bump their post only every so often.

Adventure Pixelmon, Connect at: justiscrafts.com

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Website: http://www.justiscrafts.com/

[nickshaul97]

- 26 Oct 2015 07:56 #162708 Just a thought. What happen if you offered a voting system that did not hand out voucher or unique id sent to the server. Then players aren't voting for anything in return and only the dedicated players from the community would vote.

Spoiler:

Check out my server. play.pokeplanet.net

[JeanMarc1]

- 26 Oct 2015 09:21 #162711 The thing is that giving voting rewards is supposed to be something fine, but they most often take it to levels that make it ridiculous. Pretty sure there'd also be a way to give voting rewards that wouldn't be exagerated, but it's pretty much in the same issue as the donation one.

[Vikerus]

- 26 Oct 2015 14:50 #162731 Can't be controlling the actual environment servers choose to give, the point here I was getting is to shore up the problem of inequality. Owners are going to make what they make. The best way to even this playing field is to make the playing field even.

Also I don't think it should be Pixelmon's responsibility to ping a server when someone votes. If for instance there is an xml file updated and public for reading then servers themselves can simply query a file on a cheap vps. I don't think we need instant gratification with a voting system if it's tied into a listing scenario anyway. Just cache and retrieve updates every 12hrs or something. Mind you this means server owners need a plugin special to this system of voting.

I don't think there is a simple answer. But also I don't think it would only be dedicated players who vote for a server or only for one. I know plenty of people who server hop and maintain several teams on different servers. Considering the membership count of pixelmon.com I wouldn't worry about having too few people there to vouch for servers.

If people really need enticement to do an action why not use a point system directly on here which could eventually earn forum members donor or donor-like prizes. One vote one point, something like that. It would spur forum membership and logins while helping to keep a clean server list maintained by actual pixelmon fans. The other lists aren't going away which is a point to understand though.

Adventure Pixelmon, Connect at: justiscrafts.com

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Website: http://www.justiscrafts.com/

[DiscoverNewWorlds]

- 26 Oct 2015 17:11 #162738 I'm sorry but I see that Pixelmonmod itself partners with Nodecraft. I checked out nodecraft and they are exactly what everyone is describing here. So if pixelmon really wants to be "fair" then they wouldn't partner with someone who is in it for the money. This isn't adding up. Just my thoughts.