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By ChihayaGunzou
#162193 (If this is the wrong place to post, feel free to move it where it belongs. )

I've tried around 6 or 7 of the most populated Pixelmon servers and I've been highly disappointed with them. For the most part it goes like this:

I log in, am given some commands to use, usually /kit starter or something to get me started. (This is fine)

I am told if I vote for the server I get some kind of in-game compensation (This too is fine, as long as it is supplementary and a relatively small reward)

I am told I can donate to the server, and a bunch of benefits come with donating, usually at different tier levels (This I usually have a high tolerance for. I understand servers don't usually pay for themselves, and am grateful that someone else is willing to shell their money out to help keep it running, because I'm not)

Then after I finally get through all of the initial chat notifications/ finish reading all the signs in spawn, I am about ready to play the game. And usually, within the first 10-15 minutes of logging into the server, I end up logging out and deleting the server from my multiplayer listing. Why, you ask?

Maybe it was seeing 3-4 copies of the same "Legendary" Pokemon being owned by every other trainer as if they were pidgeys.

Maybe it was the 40 warps to every biome, pokecenter, shop and trade location in the map, so you could effectively play the game without leaving the chat box.

Or maybe, it was the fact that almost every aspect of the game was made readily available through a menu. You can buy little keys and open chests that give out rare pokemon and shinies like candy. For an increased price, you can spend real money through in-game transactions to directly buy any Pokemon/item that would ordinarily take a great deal of effort to acquire. (This is where it becomes a problem, and is no longer just a "donation")

For what ever reason, these highly populated servers take away any sense of accomplishment from the game and monetize every aspect. Why bother going through the effort to acquire anything when it can be acquired with 0 effort by someone else? One of the main selling points of the Pokemon franchise is to go out and capture these pokemon, not buy them from a menu. And I'm not talking about buying pokemon that someone else actively went out and caught to sell on a GTS, I mean the ones that just spawn into existence when purchased.

I want to play on a server that gives me my starter, a hand full of pokeballs, points me in the direction of the nearest biome and simply says, "Good luck."

A server with a real economy, and purchasable pokemon/items that people actively spent their time finding/making to turn a profit.

It doesn't have to be a "Vanilla" server. It just can't be this modern scripted to hell garbage you see on every minecraft server.

It's sad that most of the servers that somewhat resemble a good experience, are barely inhabited. If anyone knows of some servers that don't spoon feed/ over-saturate the game with artificial, micro-transaction pokemon/items, feel free to let me know.

User avatar
By MoeBoy76
#162196 You can jump on beta1, read the available commands, grab your starter kit and start walking, since the server is kindly hosted for us to do testing on for free i have no need or want to add a donation store of any kind
User avatar
By KSin
#162314 I feel your pain, ChihayaGunzou. Servers that offer free shinies, drop parties every day, increased legendary spawns, a shop that you can buy legendaries from, training areas and recently I've developed a distaste for "survival" servers in peaceful mode. So no hunger, quick health regen, where's the survival? Way too easy, it should just be creative..

Disliked it all so much I decided to run a server of my own and it was basically like you said, the user spawns then they're off on their own. I ran it for a month, but unfortunately it was hosted on my PC and there were no donations for a host. It seems those servers you and I dislike so much are still much more likely to succeed. Can't beat cheats it seems.

The lingering thoughts in the back of my mind also affect my enjoyment. Always had a problem with evolution armor, gives unlimited air breathing and such (Shame pixel devs, shame upon thee), GameShark is going to be a whole new mess soon too.

It's not limited to Pixelmon though, XRays in MineCraft flourish, so a cheater will always have that advantage over you. XRays see Pixelmon ores as well.

So why bother at all? Just gotta ignore it all or find something else to play.
User avatar
By Some Body
#162318
KSin wrote:Always had a problem with evolution armor, gives unlimited air breathing and such

This completely ignores the fact that you must have obtained a full 24 Water Stones (a lot of time underwater) before even gaining access to this. You do realize there is also a Minecraft potion that does this for the small cost of a pufferfish?
User avatar
By KSin
#162322
Some Body wrote:This completely ignores the fact that you must have obtained a full 24 Water Stones (a lot of time underwater) before even gaining access to this. You do realize there is also a Minecraft potion that does this for the small cost of a pufferfish?


Yes, but if you know what you're doing, you can easily obtain 24 Water Stones, I did it before. I even got that much before on a server without trying. I do realize that there is a potion, however, you have to obtain a blaze rod with a 10% chance to drop or 30% and a pufferfish. The pufferfish looks like it has a low catch rate possibility and the potion can only last 3 or 8 minutes. The armor however, lasts forever. Actually, the potion becomes the only purpose for the pufferfish since mobs are disabled by default, therefore, it makes the potion and pufferfish completely worthless. My opinion is unchanged, the armor is OP AF.

*Edit: Also, underwater harvesting isn't the only way to obtain water stones. Though, like I said I did it before. I'd round my shard harvesting to about 30-45 minutes starting from nothing.
User avatar
By Some Body
#162325 If you are willing to spend the time underwater to find 216 Water Stone shards (or get lucky with bosses/PokéLoot), and then sacrifice all of those Water Stones for a set of armor, I think it's perfectly balanced to have the ability to have infinite underwater breathing.

Blaze rods have reasonable drop rates from Pokémon and no longer require a trip to the Nether, which makes them much easier to obtain in comparison to vanilla Minecraft.

The removal of ocelots is negligible for the value of pufferfish as any raw fish can be equally used for that purpose. Pufferfish themselves are also more common due to also being obtainable from Qwilfish.

I am skeptical about you finding all of those shards in 45 minutes, considering you'd have to find one shard every 12.5 seconds for that to be possible.

I don't see how underwater breathing is grievously OP in the first place. I can see it making sea-dwelling Pokémon and Water Stone shards (which you already used 216 of) easier to obtain, and perhaps making an underwater base trivial to make, but that's basically it. Are you able to elaborate?

You are entitled to your opinion, but as a developer of the mod (who can easily make changes if things are actually unbalanced), I am not convinced that Water Stone armor is overpowered at all.
User avatar
By KSin
#162381 You make some good points, however, I don't think any game in existence has anything with a special attribute which lasts forever. Even in Minecraft, Diamond equipment lasts a long time, but not forever. That's where I believe the imbalance occurs, Pixelmon exclusively adds this and it subtracts from the enjoyment knowing such a thing exists. No matter the cost, it should not exist imo. I could even throw some suggestions for a replacement.

Some Body wrote:I am skeptical about you finding all of those shards in 45 minutes, considering you'd have to find one shard every 12.5 seconds for that to be possible.


Anything is possible with knowledge and reason. I have knowledge of the game, good and abusive and I had a nefarious reason at the time.
User avatar
By Some Body
#162383
KSin wrote:I don't think any game in existence has anything with a special attribute which lasts forever.

I can easily disprove this statement with countless counterexamples, but the Pokémon games themselves are already more than sufficient, with EVs, moves, levels, and most held items all being permanent upgrades.
KSin wrote:Even in Minecraft

The majority of blocks are essentially permanent unless removed by an outside force (such as players or explosions). This includes (ender) chests, light sources, portals, and anything powered by redstone.

There are also several items, such as maps, compasses, and buckets, which are permanent. Within the context of Pixelmon, where there are not many sources to damage armor (which also technically renders Water Stone armor impermanent), Minecraft already has similarly "permanent" underwater features in the form of the Aqua Affinity and Depth Strider armor enchantments.
KSin wrote:Pixelmon exclusively

I guarantee Pixelmon is not the only mod to have unbreakable items.
KSin wrote:Anything is possible with knowledge and reason.

If you already had things to help you such as Fortune or underwater-aiding enchantments, night vision potions, Gameshark, other players, or a previous stockpile of some Water Stones, you have no longer started from anything remotely close to "nothing".

You have still not stated why being able to stay underwater forever is overpowered in itself. If the effect is arbitrary and it is solely due to being "permanent", I have already provided several examples of Minecraft and Pokémon doing the same thing, and simply being "permanent" is not sufficient to convince me that it is overpowered as I do not believe permanence is necessarily an unbalanced aspect of a power-up.
User avatar
By KSin
#162384
Some Body wrote:I can easily disprove this statement with countless counterexamples, but the Pokémon games themselves are already more than sufficient, with EVs, moves, levels, and most held items all being permanent upgrades.


Well, those are character attributes, you get more powerful as you train. But I guess you'd still be able to counter with weapons in other games. Actually, some held items may raise a certain attribute "permanently", but they only last while the Pokemon has it equipped.

Some Body wrote:There are also several items, such as maps, compasses, and buckets, which are permanent. Within the context of Pixelmon, where there are not many sources to damage armor (which also technically renders Water Stone armor impermanent), Minecraft already has similarly "permanent" underwater features in the form of the Aqua Affinity and Depth Strider armor enchantments.


Maps, compasses and buckets serve specific minor purposes in comparison. Actually, I don't think armor has much purpose anymore without hostile mobs..or swords but that's a different subject. True about Minecrafts enchantments but with no hostile mobs, one would still have to gather enough experience to enchant(through battling Pokemon?), but even still, it's left to chance. You know exactly what your getting with Evo Armor.

Some Body wrote:I guarantee Pixelmon is not the only mod to have unbreakable items.


Yes, however, the discussion is about Pixelmon/Vanilla MineCraft. I may have strayed from that by saying "Any game in existence" to which I will admit is my mistake.

Some Body wrote:If you already had things to help you such as Fortune or underwater-aiding enchantments, night vision potions, Gameshark, other players, or a previous stockpile of some Water Stones, you have no longer started from anything remotely close to "nothing".

You have still not stated why being able to stay underwater forever is overpowered in itself. If the effect is arbitrary and it is solely due to being "permanent", I have already provided several examples of Minecraft and Pokémon doing the same thing, and simply being "permanent" is not sufficient to convince me that it is overpowered as I do not believe permanence is necessarily an unbalanced aspect of a power-up.


For the obtaining water stones without trying and starting from nothing, I meant it was two different servers. I actually did start from 0 water stones/shards. No enchantments, no potions, no gameshark, no assistance, actually at the time I had spent less than 2-3 hours playing on the server before deciding to do it.

Well, actually when I said the evo armors, I meant all of them. Waterstone Armor and it's benefits were just an example.
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