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By Flyro
#162739 You guys have been talking about a voting system and you have been overlooking one huge factor and that is that newcoming servers don't stand a chance with a voting system. The limit of actions only being able to preform one action in 24 hours won't help either. Servers will still reward for the people who vote every 24 hours.

So let's take an example. A server just started up with a playerbase of a constant 3 people what is still quite decent figuring it just started, the three people on the server will vote every 24 hours still decent progress for the server that just started, but all we did is look at the new coming server. Now let's go to the other side of things, a server with a playerbase of a constant 20 people (so that's 20 people online at all time not counting the full player base) so the entire playerbase of that big server will vote each 24 hours.
Now I ask what will happen to the small server? I see a simple awnser it will get burried under the bigger servers. The project took half a year to build/set up for that small server without any result because it just gets burried under those bigger servers with a bigger player base, with better voting reward ect. The benefit definatly lies in the already big servers even if it's pay to win.

I think a voting system would not help our current status I think it will even work against us. A server spotlight could help out smaller servers and bigger servers so I think that would be the way better option. This could've been thought off before the voting system idea got posted it's simple math.

User avatar
By MoeBoy76
#162741
DiscoverNewWorlds wrote:I'm sorry but I see that Pixelmonmod itself partners with Nodecraft. I checked out nodecraft and they are exactly what everyone is describing here. So if pixelmon really wants to be "fair" then they wouldn't partner with someone who is in it for the money. This isn't adding up. Just my thoughts.

they host our all our downloads, so no more horrific mediafire bandwidth issues, and provide us with 2 test servers costing a total of $100/month, all for absolutely no cost to us at all and it was $80 but i squeezed another 2GB of RAM out of Ross :P both of these servers are open for public use whilst we aren't using them to beta test before a release, beta1 i actually maintain and there are 0 of the issues that have been said in this thread since i have no wish to make money out of it (as i said in my first post)
By DiscoverNewWorlds
#162748 So what your saying is if someone gives you something worth money your willing to support them. Thats the same idea as paying for premium advertising and the big guy wins everytime. And Nodecraft is a big server and 100 dollar expense is nothing to get tons more people to see there server and the hosting company. They make that money back so fast. So if truly pixelmon wants to support "equal opportunity" then pixelmon needs to promote someone who basically pays for pixelmons expense. Just my thoughts
User avatar
By MoeBoy76
#162749
DiscoverNewWorlds wrote:So what your saying is if someone gives you something worth money your willing to support them. Thats the same idea as paying for premium advertising and the big guy wins everytime. And Nodecraft is a big server and 100 dollar expense is nothing to get tons more people to see there server and the hosting company. They make that money back so fast. So if truly pixelmon wants to support "equal opportunity" then pixelmon needs to promote someone who basically pays for pixelmons expense. Just my thoughts

clearly you skipped the first part of my post, which is the main reason, so i'll say it again.

without nodecraft hosting our CDN (for free) we would still have terrible bandwidth mediafire downloads and the launcher would not have auto-downloading of the mod or side-mods.
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By RemusSargin
#162751 In regards to Flyro:
I think you bring up an excellent point, and it was well stated. Like you said, if a small server starts out, it won't be able to compete with larger servers simply because the voting population isn't there (especially in a 24 hour system). I think your impartial server spotlight, which would highlight both large and small servers, would be a great way to advertise Pixelmon servers.

To Vikerus:
I think we all agree that this is going to be hard to solve, and it should be: it isn't as black and white as it may seem, hence the 50+ comments on this thread. However, while your forum based voting system does have its merits, it doesn't address the issue that Flyro brought up: smaller servers can't compete. Just because we open the polling up to the whole forum doesn't mean that players won't just vote for large servers, or any servers for that matter, in exchange for donor-like rewards. I like the thought process, but it does still have its flaws.

And finally, Nodecraft/Pixelmon Partnership:
While Nodecraft certainly gets benefits from being partnered with Pixelmon, I feel that the benefits listed are great. Sure, it might be a "bummer" to see a partner, I think it is a solid decision for Pixelmon, and the downloads at least are much better. Just my thoughts.

Thanks,
Remus
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By urbymine
#163028 right now most of the latest ideas and discussions brought up are mostly in the direction of evening the playing field for every server, and yea that could work, but there are other options.
in the end, what matters most is how the dev. team looks at this issue, if they feel uncomfortable with the issues addressed in this topic then they could either try to combat them directly or in-directly by instead giving benefits to the type of server they find appropriate to represent the pixelmon mod.
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By Quakthorn2
#163052 Let me see if I understand this correctly.

You want a way to have a smaller server become more noticeable than a larger server?

Here's how it works:

Just like in the real world, you offer a product/service that no one else is offering. If the product/service is good, people will flock to it. If not, it will be buried and forgotten.

Running a server (Regardless if it's Pixelmon or not.) is the same way. The true reason that bigger servers get more notice is not that they have more voters. It's because of the age-old phrase "Word of mouth."

Word of mouth is somewhat like Pay it Forward. You tell 3 people about a server, each of them will tell 3 people. This cycle continues until the server becomes popular and quite big.

This, of course, takes time and patience. If you do not have either, it's best not to own your server and just join one with your friends. All of these "big servers" started out just like everyone else. Small and very little people. No server in existence become huge and overrun overnight. They put in the effort and hard work to make their servers what they are today. If they decided to hire modmakers, mapmakers, paid advertisement, etc, chances are, the server wasn't very good in the first place so they spent their hard-earning money to make it better. Now, I am not saying that it's a bad thing they did that. They wanted their servers to succeed so I praise them for putting in so much to continue their services to their fans.

Anyhow, the meaning of my long speech is this: Have patience, take some time and players will come to your server. Make it look fantastic and put your heart and soul into your work. Let your players have some input as well. They will feel like their ideas are not only heard but considered for the growth of the server.

-Q
By JeanMarc1
#163055 I think you're kind of seeing a smaller server to be more visible than bigger ones, it's about a server with different mindset than what is currently the norm. I see that you have the right idea somewhat, at least that you also understand that if they really want something that's out of the ordinary to succeed, they need more than not being a pay 2 win server to succeed, they need to put ideas to make servers better than what's currently offered.
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By Phanatos
#163057 To a degree I can agree with the viewpoint of the original poster. To be honest, I dislike the idea of "pay to win" servers. But a large part of this exists because servers are competitive. Its relatively hard to create a Pixelmon server and get is successful without feeding into the wants of the community and as a hole, the widespread community that do donate to servers want these things. And as awkward as it is, money talks. Money for a server means stability and potential expansion for the future.

With that being said, I think there are areas where a line is drawn. For example, anything that introduces enhancing factors to IVs, EVs, or natures is a bit over powered. Why? Because things like tournaments or player gyms officially become pay to win. The way to combat this is to place restrictions on community based events. Like for example, in tournaments, restrict the use of legendary pokemon. Thats a reasonable thing, regular tournaments already restrict Uber pokemon so its not really much of a change. Going back to the thing about EVs, IVs, and Nature, by no means should anyone be able to change or manipulate EVs IVs or Nature with real life money. If you could, no longer are donation perks just this aesthetically appealing thing to collect but a genuine competitive edge that translates into the way you battle other people. Things that give you a competitive edge over other people is purely a pay to win concept and under no circumstances should be a donation perk.

In my opinion, it is OKAY for a pixelmon server to have these random chests or ranks as long as they don't delve into the realm of giving the player an unfair competitive advantage unobtainable through hard work. If the server can successfully create community based events that don't hinge on the necessity of a donation rank just to stand a chance, then I think the introduction of these concepts are fine.

To be honest, I have a lot of these concepts on my server but I'm trying to be extra careful to not make it a "Pay to Win" server while still appeasing the player base. At this point, the more income + the more players we obtain means expansion of a community that at this point I love. If the population of my server allows it, in the future I'd love to open a second region to my server exploring different aspects my server doesn't get to explore. Its all about finding a proper balance.
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By urbymine
#163091
Just like in the real world, you offer a product/service that no one else is offering. If the product/service is good, people will flock to it. If not, it will be buried and forgotten.


i liked the rest of your analyses, it's true that servers that bring quality their players have a higher chance of those players staying, but the comparison to real life products and "mouth to mouth" is to me not only unfit, but almost manipulative in it's own right because we're not only statistically looking at what's best to gain players, but also what's fair and what is best for the PLAYER, not for the server.

prime example: ever heard about beats by dre? yes? you see them all the time, lot's of people use them, even though they are completely outclassed by a horde of other headphones.

simply because the brand was manipulative enough and had the funds or ability to advertise itself, does not mean it's a quality product that is superior, and yet it's all you see around town.
this is where the comparisons comes in with pixelmon, simply because a server has a lot of upvotes and has a large following doesn't mean that that server is what players really look for, it's just what players naively think they are looking for because they can't see past these server's spot on top server lists and assume one is better because it has a larger following(people are lazy).It are these servers that become the face of the mod, manipulating votes trough taking away any sense of achievement on the server itself by offering seductive donator options or abnormal rewards for votes
making most people not even realize the experience they are missing.
of course there are people to which these kinds of server appeal to (rich kids with little time? i don't know) but i won't speak for those.


Phanatos wrote:With that being said, I think there are areas where a line is drawn. For example, anything that introduces enhancing factors to IVs, EVs, or natures is a bit over powered. Why? Because things like tournaments or player gyms officially become pay to win. The way to combat this is to place restrictions on community based events. Like for example, in tournaments, restrict the use of legendary pokemon. Thats a reasonable thing, regular tournaments already restrict Uber pokemon so its not really much of a change. Going back to the thing about EVs, IVs, and Nature, by no means should anyone be able to change or manipulate EVs IVs or Nature with real life money. If you could, no longer are donation perks just this aesthetically appealing thing to collect but a genuine competitive edge that translates into the way you battle other people. Things that give you a competitive edge over other people is purely a pay to win concept and under no circumstances should be a donation perk.


i +1 this, from that point on it falls under the subjective definition of what a server defines as "winning".
random example:Some people are into hunting down shiny pokemon and find a sense of accomplishment in obtaining many different shines, so by that definition , by offering shiny pokemon in a store, it would create a unfair advantage for payers over the non paying shiny hunters, creating a p2w envirroment in that "win objective"
rarecandies and especially ev/iv's are the most straightforward and gross example of a p2w but you can define it in many different ways depending on how people play a server.
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